Poll: Bunker pants or no bunker pants thats the question

If they are risking to go to far into a fire they should stop using them.

Modern firefighting PPE has evolved over the years and will continue to do so. It evolves to keep pace with the modern environment and the way in which modern materials used in everything from building construction to DVD cases have been developed. The thermal energy given off by a fire in a present day building, even a house, FAR exceeds what it did in the days of turn out gear that consisted on a long coats, knee boots and a helmet.
 To return to using that level of protection would be as crazy as doing away with modern apparatus and returning to using horse drawn steam pumps

For the first time, turnout pants will be standard issue for the Chicago fire department that has a long-standing history of wearing long coats and three-quarter "day boots" for structural firefighting. They just switched to turnout gear in 2008.

I spent a night riding with E123 in Chicago in 2004 and most of the guys I talked to at that house, and others I visited in the city couldn't wait to get full bunker gear. It amazes me that there are fire depts out there that are still allowing firefighters to enter structure fires without such levels of PPE.

I was such a proponent of Bunker Pants that I bought my own before my dept issued them.  Only a fool would go in without them... might just as well go in without SCBA while your at it.

THE LAST SET OF BUNKER GEAR I RECIEVED WAS CUSTOM TAILORED FOR ME. FIREFIGHTERS NOW HAVE HEAT DETECTORS ON THERE SCBA'S AND THERE BUNKER GEAR. ALSO, SOME DEPARTMENTS ARE LUCKY, TO HAVE PERSONAL ALERT SYSTEMS THAT TELL THE COMMAND SYSTEM THE TEMP. INSIDE THE FIRE. FULL PPE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. PLUS, IN A FLASHOVER, IT COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Ought to go back to 3/4s,Full Coats and Leathers..... All the Advancement in PPE has given a false sense of security.
    All the protection is harmful because you can't use your 'built-in" temp sensors(Ears,Neck,etc.) 'cause they're all "protected" from the heat....
   I bet if you check statistics, there would be Less LODDs back in the day than now.

If you're relying on your ears to tell you its too hot you're too far into the job already. Correct training will tell you when conditions are getting too dangerous for you to be where you are.
 The days of just "wandering around" inside a burning building are long gone. You should be assessing the incident from the moment you get off the rig to the time you drive away. There are plenty of signs that are evident in a fire situation to give you a good idea what is going on.

Not very long ago, the Boston Fire Department instituted a new policy that gave members the option of wearing 3/4 boots and coat as opposed to bunker pants and coat.
In the wake of the recent LODD of FF Donald Franklin of Ladder Co. 44, some in the FDNY are questioning whether "bunker gear" is the way to go.
http://newyorkpost.com/news/regionalnews/21454.htm
COMMISH BACKS FIRE GEAR
Tuesday,January 16,2001

By CHRISTOPHER FRANCESCANI

Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen yesterday defended the use of heavy protective bunker gear after a 42-year-old member of the Bravest became the third firefighter to die of a heart attack in three months.
"There are definitely negatives to bunker gear," Von Essen told The Post. "You get tired sooner because of the weight of the gear, [and] exhaustion comes on more quickly, but the tradeoff is the unbelievable protection you get."

Burns are down 70 percent since the bunker gear was introduced in 1995.

Firefighter Donald Franklin, a 16-year department vet, collapsed Saturday after battling a blaze that killed a couple in their Bronx home.

Earlier this month, a Queens firefighter suffered a fatal heart attack on a treadmill just after his shift, and in November, a Bronx firefighter succumbed at his firehouse moments after returning from battling a blaze.

Critics charge that while the bunker gear has allowed firefighters to go deeper into fires and remain inside longer, the added weight, stress and increased body temperature is taking its toll on the hearts of the men.

Rudy San Filippo, Manhattan trustee for the Uniformed Fire Fighters Association, claims that the heavily insulated, highly fire-resistant fabric is just too weighty and constricting.

"Nobody's done a study on what the actual damage to hearts is," he said. "I'd much rather have the old gear back. It's like day and night, it's so much lighter."

In the early 1990s, the Fire Department resisted switching to the bunker gear, citing the possibility of firefighters overheating and suffering exhaustion.

But as burn rates rose and firefighters clamored for better equipment, the department launched a pilot program that led to the department-wide switch in 1995.

Von Essen said the decision to adopt bunker gear, which was made before his appointment as fire commissioner, "is a decision that was made by almost every department in the country, and no one has experienced a rise in heart attacks because of them."

Uniformed Fire Fighters Association spokesman Tom Butler backed up Von Essen.

"Clearly, there are some tradeoffs" to bunker gear, Butler acknowledged.

"The union hopes, and I'm sure the department hopes, that some of these issues can be addressed - regarding fatigue and increased body temperatures - through increased training and physical conditioning."

So, is it time to take a second look and perhaps weigh more carefully the pros and cons of our heavy, insulating, almost fully encapsulating gear?

I guess this takes us back to the time proven adage...   Your damned if you do.... Damned if you don't.   

This debate can go on forever.  As I stated earlier, I am a firm believer in bunker gear.  At the same time, I can see the point made about the older gear being lighter and cooler... assuming the firefighter does not go to the fire floor or into a burning room.... But what are the chances of that....??? 

get in shape and its less of a strain on you the old hip boots i wouldnt use em in a fire u go in and get a room about to flash or you mess with the thermal layer and it comes down on you LOOK OUT WICKED HOT...

as far as knowing when to get out you learn your limts and watch the conditions inside.